UNIVERSITY OF KENTUCKY SENATE MEETING * * * * * * * * * * * * MARCH 18, 2019 * * * * * * * * * * * * JENNIFER BIRD-POLLAN, CHAIR JENNIFER OSTERHAGE, VICE CHAIR SHEILA BROTHERS, ADMINISTRATIVE COORDINATOR DOUGLAS MICHAEL, PARLIAMENTARIAN * * * * * * * * * * * * MS. BIRD-POLLAN: Okay, we'll go ahead and get started. Just a reminder to get your clicker from the back of the room if you didn't, yet, already. The clickers are fixed; so for those of you -- that's right. Well done, Sheila; thank you. So we are using them again this month and we will do that. So just some reminders about how we conduct the meetings: We'll ask you to follow -- we will try to follow Robert' Rules and we'll ask you to comply with that. And we would like you to participate and report back on what we've done here today to your colleagues and your departments and colleges. And also to leave the clicker with us when you leave; we need them, so that's another request for you. So let's start with our attendance slide. So when the slide appears and the question is read, you may vote. So will you watch the NCAA tournament? Is this sacrilege to ask this in March in this city? We'll ask you to vote now. Did I announce that too quickly? Can we undo this? Do we need to? 2 MS. BROTHERS: No, I did it. MS. BIRD-POLLAN: Okay, good. We're going to assume that all of you are here. I hope these clickers keep working. I just want to announce one thing: The last item on the agenda is the Student Wellness Initiative and that's going to go as part of the provost's report today instead. So that will be earlier in our agenda, just so you're aware. We didn't receive any changes for the minutes from February 11th, so unless I hear any objections right now -- okay, so hearing none, those minutes will stand as distributed -- will stand approved as distributed by unanimous consent. A couple of announcements for you: First, we've changed the Senate's April meeting. It will still be in this room, except instead of April 8th, it will be April 22nd. You've already gotten an e-mail about this, but we just want to remind you again. The reason we had to do this is because the Board of Trustees will meet on 3 April 30th and the degree lists have to be approved by the Senate before they get approved by the Board of Trustees, before graduation happens. And so the Senate meeting for May was going to fall after that Board of Trustees meeting, so we needed to change it. So we'll meet on April 22nd. This allows students to put their applications for degrees in, or added to, excuse me, added to the degree list for a longer period, but it still gets our work done on approving those degree lists before the Board meeting. So please make note of that change and we'll appreciate it if you can also attend on the 22nd. Another announcement: The current chair of the Undergraduate Council is Professor Amy Spriggs and she's done it for several years now. She's let me know that she's not eligible because she's not available; she might be eligible, but she's not available to do it again next year, so we need a new chair for that committee. It's a very important committee, and a 4 robust and busy committee, but an exciting one and an important one. So I am very happy to hear from you, names of people that you think might be interested. I'm more than happy to talk to them. If you, yourself, are interested, please talk to me about it. I would love to have a good long list of names we can consider for that role. Curricular proposal deadlines; this is for fall. We've already passed two of the deadlines for fall 2019 effective dates. New courses, program changes, other than the significant ones and minors, can still be submitted until April 15th. At this point any new programs or significant changes, things like that, we are past the deadline. We are still working hard; all of our committees are still working hard. We are doing what we can to get things through, but at this point there's no guarantee if (inaudible) can have a new program proposal or a significant change, there's no guarantees we can get it through by fall 2019. 5 So thinking ahead, for those of you who still have new programs you'd like to propose, we're now thinking of fall 2020 effective dates. These are our new sets of deadlines. So again, if you have a new program and you haven't yet gotten through one of the academic councils, these are the deadlines for fall 2020. We will obviously give you reminders of these continuing forward. A couple of another announcements we've been asked to share with you: UK Libraries are hosting an alternative textbook grant program. So there is an alternative textbook grant program and they are accepting applications now through April 1st. Adrian Ho, here in the Libraries, is the contract person for information about that. There is his e-mail address. We've also got the link there. If you e-mail Adrian directly, he'll happily talk with you about information here. This is to encourage faculty to consider using free online textbooks, open access things, and to reduce the financial burden on our students 6 related to textbooks. So this is a great program and Adrian will happily share information with you and your colleagues, if you're interested in that. So please let your colleagues know about that as well. Another call for volunteers: The Office of Enrollment Management is seeking volunteers to (inaudible). These are students who have been admitted but haven't yet committed to attend UK in the fall, undergraduates. And there's two nights next week, the 25th and 26th, where there's sort of a call night. So the call is meant to be congratulatory, talking to them about why UK is so great, why they should come here. There's going to be a script available and if you're, like me, uncomfortable about making phone calls to people that you don't know, and people from admissions (inaudible) will be available there if questions arise while you're making those calls. They would love to have as many volunteers as possible. They would love to hear from you; the contact person is here, Tony (inaudible); 7 there's his e-mail address. So please consider reaching out to him and also consider letting your colleagues know, if that's something they would be interested in; I know they would be happy to have lots of volunteers. Okay. Actually, before I move onto the chair's report, I would like to turn it over to Roger Brown for a minute. Roger is on Senate's Rules and Elections Committee and is the chair of the elections subgroup and he's going to talk for a minute about the trustee elections. MR. BROWN: So there is a trustee election this year. If you'll recall, in the spring, I sent out another e-mail; all of you should receive an e-mail tomorrow at noon indicating that the nominations hearing was started. In your roles as senators and deans and so forth, I just want to highlight a couple of things all of which is available on the Senate Council website with the information. One is: There are restrictions on the 8 use of University listserv for the advocacy of (inaudible) any particular candidate, so you don't want to use them for that purpose. However, in your role as a representative, I think it is appropriate for you to communicate and encourage people to participate. So they can participate by nominating. They can participate by voting, if they're eligible. And if they choose to and they're eligible, they can participate by running. It's very important that our faculty have a strong representation in terms of voting so that when that person is on the Board of Trustees, the Board of Trustees can understand that that person is supported by a large group of the faculty. So encouraging voting, in particular, is an important part. MS. BIRD-POLLAN: Thank you, Roger. So those are the announcements. I'm now going to give you items from my chair's report. The Senate rules give the Senate Council the authority to act on certain matters as long as we report these matters back to the Senate Council. 9 This is with regard to minor calendar changes. So at our February 25th meeting, the Senate Council voted to include a second commencement day for the 2019/2020 calendar. This was just an oversight on the first -- on the calendar that we approved. We approved it with only one commencement date; in fact, there are two commencement dates that we added at our February 25th meeting. Also, we wanted to let you know we've created an ad hoc committee; we're in the process of populating it. Senate Council has nominate people and I'm waiting to hear back all the people we've invited to serve. Ernie Bailey is going to serve as the chair of this committee. You might remember, back in October of 2016, the Senate considered the enterprise institute of the Gatton College of Business and Economics, and at the time, because there were some concerns raised about the risk of inappropriate curricular influence by some of the donors, part of the Senate's motion included the requirement that that institute be evaluated at the mid point of the funding, 10 so that would be in September of 2019, and the requirement was that the Senate work in conjunction with the provost's office to perform a review of the (inaudible). So we're in the process of forming that committee that will do that work and then bring to you, in the fall, a report about matters of academic freedom inside the Institute for Free Enterprise. One more item that the Senate Council performed on behalf of the Senate: Another change to the university calendar. This was a request that came to us through Associate Provost for Enrollment Management, Christine Harper. The idea was to open for nondegree students, enrollment in our summer courses as of March 18th. The idea was that to get these nondegree students into the summer online courses, it was important for those seats to be available as soon as possible for the departments that want to have that. The concerns that were raised at the Senate Council was to find a way to ensure that the opening of these courses for 11 nondegree students wouldn't disadvantage our degree seeking students. So the way Christine explained it to us is that for summer 2019, they're asking colleges to specifically identify courses for which there are not enrollment problems, so courses where they can just add more seats if there's an additional expression of interest. So for those courses where colleges and departments expressly tell the enrollment management folks that they're willing to do this, the registration would be held and capped at a certain number for nondegree seeking students, and then those remaining seats are held for degree seeking students. So that's the approach. And so the Senate Council approved this change of allowing nondegree students to enroll as of March 18th. And then if enrollment issues are encountered with these courses, more options would be opened for degree seeking students. The intent is to have this, you know, sort of more formalized for fall 2019. We did approve it, but we also asked for a report to 12 be made back to us in fall of 2019, this coming fall, about the process worked, whether there were any additional concerns or any unforeseen problems that arose during the process. Okay. So the next item on our agenda is the provost's report. So we'll do the Wellness Initiative now. PROVOST BLACKWELL: Thank you, Chair Bird-Pollan. Good afternoon; thanks for -- I'll stay away from that; pardon me. But before I start the conversation about student mental wellness, I do want to mention a few things first. There are a number of dean searches going on this semester. They're all important, but there's only one that applies to everybody in this room and that's the dean of Libraries search. So I know the open forum is going to conflict with your meeting today, but it will be made available after all the finalists are through, and you'll be able to watch the open forum at your leisure. But I do encourage you to participate in the open forums as you are 13 able for the dean of Libraries search. Second: Jennifer mentioned the good work of a number of the committees, sheparding new programs. And especially our new online initiative. I was in a meeting to update on progress of our path forward and Associate Provost Kern presented a color coded sheet that showed the status of all of our new programs, and I think it was green, yellow, red. There were no red. There were only a couple of yellows, and lots of green. And I think the yellows were basically self-inflicted wounds, as I understand. So that progress really does reflect a lot of work by this body and I, on behalf of President and Executive Vice President (inaudible) and the entire Our Path Forward team, we thank you for partnering with us and for keeping things moving forward. Last thing that came up on the slide was about the call project for enrollment management. That is a yield event, so to speak. These are students that have been accepted. We want them to show up. And a 14 voice from you or me or any of our colleagues would be helpful in helping that to happen. And meeting our enrollment target for the fall certainly is important for all of us for a number of reasons. So I encourage you to think about participating if you can. So thank you for a few announcements. I wanted just to give a quick overview on mental wellness at the University of Kentucky, but also more generally in the U.S. population. And this whole issue has become critical in a sense. I know most of you are probably aware that we had a number of student deaths early this semester, and that started to raise concern. I've seen a number of reports, more than in the past, of student having ideation of suicide, and based on that, being transported to one of our local hospitals because of that. And so we did want to start looking at data to make sure we weren't out of line. And as most of you know, the fact that there's a clustering of events doesn't necessarily mean 15 that there's a trend. I mean, even in a random process, you can have clustering. But we still wanted to make sure that we paused, took inventory of where we are, and what the issues were. So these slides, I'm not going to read through all of them, but essentially mental health is a national problem. And you can see that the suicide rate nationally has increased dramatically since 1999, and so we're not unique as a college campus. And, in fact, if you look at the bottom two bullets there, the suicide rate actually is highest for older people, middle aged and older people. So it's not necessarily a trend we see in younger people. If you look at anxiety disorders, you can see, again, it's highly prevalent, nothing unusual for someone to suffer from anxiety at some point in their lives. Then you can look at trends in student mental health, and these data are based on the National College Health Assessment, and these can be nationally benchmarked. So if you look at these data, the 16 question asks, you know, have you had any of these feelings in the last 30 days. If you look down the comparisons, we're pretty much in line with the national trends; we're a little bit higher on self overwhelming anxiety. But on the rest of it, we don't look that much different than the typical university. I'm going to absolutely bypass that one because it's illegible. But it essentially says the same thing: We're not unusual. And then this just talks about our usage of the student counseling center. And if you look at our enrollment over the last several years, enrollment has increased by ten percent. But we've had a much larger in the number of clients served at the counseling center and (inaudible). And so we are seeing more clients in the counseling center. That is in line with the national trends with respect to mental health. So next, recognizing all of this, we made this presentation to the Board of 17 Trustees, and there are some actions that we're going to take; I'll summarize those in a few minutes. I now want to turn it over to Therese Smith; she's Director of Community Concern and she'll talk about services that are available. MS. SMITH: Hi everyone; thank you -- I think this is on -- for having me today. As Provost Blackwell mentioned, I'm going to talk a little bit about UK systems and services meant to support students who might be struggling. The one thing I want to be sure to highlight quickly is that we should not equate mental illness or mental health with suicide; that would be an unfair thing. There are lots of people who struggle with all kinds of varieties of mental illnesses and mental health difficulties that are not suicidal, will not be suicidal. There are quite a few people who attempt and/or complete suicide who do not have any diagnosable mental health issue, and so I do not want to minimize either of those very serious issues by lumping them in 18 together because there is correlation sometimes, but not always, especially when you talk about the emerging adult population which is our typical aged undergraduate student, that 18 to 25 year range. So quickly I just want to talk about how does UK currently try to support a student who might be struggling? You saw some data from our counseling center on the previous slide. Like many college campuses, we have a fully functioning independently licensed university counseling center. It is staffed by licensed PhD level clinicians and a handful of master level licensed clinicians. They provide individual and group counseling to students, as well as various workshop, drop in activities, and educational programming across campus. Our counseling center is very much in line with the standards across the nation. In fact, we're often looked at as a good example. And when we talk about some of the difficulties we have at our counseling center and talk to our partners at other colleges and 19 universities, we are all seeing similar trends, not that that makes everything okay, but, again, UK is not an outlier in any way. I think the big thing that happens very often at the counseling center is students and families, and sometimes university employees are frustrated if a student walks in and feels the need to speak to someone in an individual therapy session right then. That may not be an option available to them due to capacity at the time, timing, staffing et cetera, and the counseling center staff is trained to engage that student to get enough information to decide is this such a crisis that we need to pull somebody, or is this something that we can facilitate another type of intervention that is appropriate for that student to meet their needs, and that often happens. We deal with students, I know this won't be a surprise to you all, who may have difficulty in delayed gratification or not having their needs meet immediately. And so it can be very frustrating to feel as if you are in a crisis, go to the counseling center 20 and say I want to somebody and be told that may not be possible right this minute, or may not be possible in the way I want to receive it right this minute, I think is a better way. So I just ask that you keep that in mind. Ultimately you should always remember if a student is in immediate crisis, there is immediate concern about their ability to be safe and to function, they are going to be seen or be assisted appropriately immediately. If they are not to that point, the counseling center is going to look at what is the best way to direct them, maybe a phone triage later in the day or the evening, maybe attending a workshop or another meeting later. And so the counseling center -- and the other thing is, not every student needs individual ongoing therapy even if they think they do. And so sometimes they may get told, you know, we don't need to see you back or we would recommend this group modality or something. And again, that may not be what that person wants to hear as their form of assistance. It doesn't mean that that's not 21 appropriate. The other thing the counseling center does is they will work with students because we do have a limited capacity at our counseling center, both for certain types of treatment and intensity of treatment. And so depending on what a student needs, they will work with them to refer them out to an appropriate community partner that can meet that student's needs. So, for instance, if a student needs regular, weekly intensive individual therapy, that is not a need that can be met at a university counseling center, just purely from volume and capacity, so they will work with that student to help them transition so there is not a gap in (inaudible), so they're getting their needs met. I'm the director for our University's Community of Concern Office. This is our behavioral intervention threat assessment office. I think the's easiest way to see us is a nonclinical case management office. This student is struggling; this student is having 22 problems. This student is causing problems for others; what do we do? How do we even figure out where to send them, how to help them? That is what my office does. We look and go, okay, what is the presenting behavior? What might be the underlying cause, and how do we get that person connected to the appropriate resources with the goal of them maintaining a healthy relationship with the university? Sometimes that means they need to take a break. Sometimes it means we need to get them into -- help them make appointments at the counseling center. Sometimes it's helping them get connected to financial resources. It runs the gamut. The other thing our office does for every report that is received, the first thing we do is an initial review for threat assessment. We have a rubric and a system and a process by which we do that that has been vetted. Because ultimately we're also looking at is this person's behavior a treat to 23 themselves or the larger campus community. And if so, what do we need to do to mitigate that. So that is what our office is doing. We fall under the Dean of Students. The Dean of Students Office, think probably even ten years ago when you didn't have all of these other individual offices under the Dean of Students. The Dean of Students, that person, sort of did all of these interactions, these behavioral intervention, maybe conduct, et cetera. Our campus, like many others, now has a Dean of Students that really manages a variety of offices, and under our current Dean of Student structure, you have my office, the Community of Concern, our Office of Student Conduct, which is tasked with managing our Code of Student Conduct and students' adherence to that. Our Office for Student Organization and Activities for turning in sorority live and residents' life, so that's a big gamut of offices both for accountability and for 24 support and connection for students. Last, we cannot forget UK Behavioral Health Services. As part of our University Health Services, which is student health, we have a behavioral health unit that is comprised of two full-time psychiatrists, two full-time psychiatrist nurse practitioners, as well as psychiatric residents from UK, who see students most often for medication management related to psychiatric diagnoses and treatment, but will also do a little bit of therapy as well. And we are really lucky on this campus to have both an office designed for that talk therapy and that type of engagement as well as an office for managing appropriate psychiatric medications. We see a lot of students come to college with a variety of medications, oftentimes maybe prescribed by a pediatrician. And once you reach the age of adulthood or emerging adulthood, it's time to maybe reconsider are we beyond that scope from a pediatric standpoint and how are we engaging with a professional related to psychiatric 25 diagnosis and treatment, not to mention the whole sort of biological research related to the number of psychiatric disorders that manifest often in young adulthood, which we won't get into that today; that's a whole other thing. So all of that to say, there are a lot of resources currently available to support our students on campus. That doesn't mean that we can't do more and that we're not continuing to look at how we better support our students. The other thing that I will -- I'll close with is: All of these offices are available to support students. There is an expectation on some level that students willingly engage. Due to a variety of reasons, we cannot force students, beyond them violating the code or being a threat to others, to engage in help-seeking behavior. And so, anything we can do as a campus community to encourage students to engage in help-seeking behavior, to maybe let them know it's okay to be vulnerable and say, I'm not 26 okay and I might need to talk to somebody, or I might need help figuring out what resource to go to. That is all beneficial because students are very often reluctant to even speak up and say, hey, this is a problem, you know, we want to pretend like everything's okay. So I think that's where we can all make an impact no matter what our role is on campus or our expertise or training, is to say: When we need help, we should own that and ask for that and engage in those resources because they are available. PROVOST BLACKWELL: Okay. Given Therese 's last point, where can you and other faculty colleagues help? It really is to make diligent use of the Academic Alert System. So that doesn't necessarily trigger a behavioral intervention, but if there are patterns that advisors might see that faculty are putting into the Academic Alert System, the advisors can then make a referral to community of concern or the counseling center. MS. SMITH: A good example is you 27 submit, a student, you know, has missed this many classes. Well, maybe they just don't like that class or it's 8 a.m. and they're not getting up, but when an advisor gets that for multiple classes, all of a sudden we go, there's something going on here that we want to look into, so any time we can find those opportunities for intervention. The other thing, I think it would be remiss, is to say, we're talking about students, but we can't forget that as faculty, we know that very often we also experience distress and I think about our student deaths that have happened this semester and how distressing that was for our students and their families, but also the faculty and staff on this campus that especially knew those students personally or worked with them or were working to support their classmates or peers. And so, know that your well-being is important as well and I hope you're utilizing your resources, and if there are other things we can do to support academic departments and how we interact and manage these crises and 28 trauma, we need to know that as well. PROVOST BLACKWELL: So in terms of follow-up, we are taking a pause and are looking at just a quick scan of the immediate landscape to see are there any gaps in service or in the process that we can address immediately to try to improve. So that's underway. A longer term, the president announced at the Board of Trustees meeting that we would be forming a expert task force to look more comprehensively at how we address student mental health on campus. In particular, we're concerned about surveillance and how we can determine the potential problems before they occur, get students the right help, identify gaps in service, make sure that we are using all of our resources directed toward this area wisely, very high level longer term approach. That task force has been formed. It is co-chaired by Dean Donna Arnett from the College of Public Health, happens to be an expert in epidemiology and public health. And then on the staff side, we have 29 Margaret Pisacano; Margaret is the director of Medical Risk Management for UK Healthcare, and is also an associate general counsel in the General Counsel's Office, and she's also trained as a nurse and practiced as a nurse before moving into the legal profession. We've got about a dozen experts, and this was the criteria; we really called around to campus, did some research, identified the faculty experts and some staff experts and medical experts that can help us address this problem comprehensively. Probably two thirds of that group are faculty that have research or teaching (inaudible) in these areas. We've also got some staff from UK Health Care that are serving on this group as well. And we're working on the charge. As that charge is developed and we present that to the group, we'll have more communication about what the group will be doing and the timetable. But know that this will remain a source of concern for us going forward, in making sure that we're utilizing our resources 30 to their best use. Would this be a time for a few questions? MS. BIRD-POLLAN: We have time for a few questions. Are there any questions here? Yeah. MS. UDVARDY: Monica Udvardy, Anthropology. Thank you for your description. I have sent many students to the counseling center, but I have only submitted one Community of Concern, which I did on March 6th, and I also submitted an academic alert for that student. She had not attended my class and she had come in to see my once, and I e-mailed her again, after several more absences and she wrote a huge e-mail that anybody would have submitted to the Community of Concern. I received a response from the advisor who is in our department, she's a fellow faculty member, so neither she or I have the psychiatric or psychological expertise to deal with her. I received an automated message from Community of Concern on March 6 when I 31 submitted the Community of Concern e-mail, and the automated says you will receive further communication from Community of Concern staff as appropriate. I have heard nothing since then, and so can you describe what happens, and I would like to know what happened to this student. MS. SMITH: Yeah, so that's a great question. For those of you that might not have heard, in short, what happens after you refer somebody to COC; what do you get to know back? And that's probably the biggest question we get, so thank you for asking. Ultimately every report that is received by Community of Concern, whoever is the report submitter gets a response that -- the standard is within two business days; it's usually the same day -- that says: We got it and here is what our initial steps are going to be. And then after that, it is very situationally specific for the student. We try to be very careful when we engage with students. They very often will share with us 32 intimate details that they don't want others knowing. And so, for instance, you might get a response that says: We are going to meet with the student or we are going to call the student to engage them and support them, but we are probably not going to tell you all of the details that they shared or what their individual sort of action plan is without their consent or want to engage other people, or if there are times when there's a class disruption issue that we obviously would send more then about how this relates to class participation or such. So that can be challenging because to protect the student's privacy, we very often are limited in what we send back to alert submitters, other than to say: We are working with the student to address the concern. And I fully acknowledge that that is a huge frustration for alert submitters who care very deeply for students, otherwise you wouldn't be submitting reports to begin with. But just from a student privacy perspective, we operate under that is their 33 story to tell and we want to hold them accountable and support them, but they still get to own a little bit of how much other people are engaged. Yeah. And so we can, obviously offline, we can have a more individual conversation about that specific student; I couldn't do that in front of a group. But yeah, that's a short answer that I realize may may not be satisfying, but.... MR. BROWN: Alan Brown, Arts and Sciences. So is it true, and this is hopefully just a quick question, full-time students have access to all these resources but part-time do not, or what is the main criteria used to determine whether you can bring them (inaudible)? MS. SMITH: So for anything under the Dean of Students, anybody who is taking -- you can have a one credit hour class, you could be no credit hours but dissertation status, you are a student, you fall under the purview of the Dean of Students Office, which means also Community of Concern. 34 Where things get confusing is all of a variety of our campus resources, so the counseling center, University Health, the Career Center. Let's start naming them all. Very often those are dependent on what type of student you are. Counseling Center, I will break it down by six credit hours or more, paid credit hours, so employees using their employee six credit, their employee benefit, no. But if a student is in six credit hours or more in any academic term, they're eligible to go to the Counseling Center. And if they have been enrolled in a spring semester and are pre-enrolled for the fall semester, they can continue over the summer. Does that make sense for the Counseling Center? MR. BROWN: Yeah, so grad or under, doesn't matter -- MS. SMITH: Grad, undergrad. They also do grad students that are not -- that don't have classes but are in dissertation status are also eligible. 35 MR. BROWN: Six, you have to have six, though? MS. SMITH: Well, for dissertation status, I don't know how that works. UNIDENTIFIED: Two credits. MS. SMITH: Yeah, dissertation status is going to be different, otherwise, it's six credit hours. University Health Services, full-time undergraduate students that help, that student health fee is just part of their tuition and fees that is paid every academic term, fall and spring, and so they're eligible. Graduate and professional programs, those are all program specific. Some programs actually require students to pay the health fee. A lot of our international students, that's part of the plan. So that would be program specific. So if you are not a full-time undergraduate student, you can still pay the student health fee for an academic term to receive services at Student Health, that ranges, I'm going to say around a couple hundred dollars for an academic term. Do not 36 quote me on that; UHS would be the people to ask. But what we often say to students is if you calculate what you would pay in copay or if you don't have insurance just an outright fee, for even a single urgent treatment visit, it's probably more financially beneficial to pay that student health fee if you have not (inaudible) it as a full-time student to be eligible to go to University Health Services. MS. BIRD-POLLAN: So just in the interest of time I'm going to ask have to end our questions here, but I suspect, Therese, that if people have questions to e-mail you that you would reply to them? MS. SMITH: Yes. MS. BIRD-POLLAN: If you can share your e-mail address. MS. SMITH: Yes. It's Therese.Smith@UKY. Go to the Community of Concern website, the Dean of Students website; we're all on there. I'll be happy to answer questions and come do individual, departmental, college, unit conversations or 37 trainings as needed and appropriate. PROVOST BLACKWELL: Thank you for the time. MS. BIRD-POLLAN: Thank you. Okay. Our vice chair, Jennifer Osterhage? MS. OSTERHAGE: No report. MS. BIRD-POLLAN: Our parliamentarian? UNIDENTIFIED: We have 12 action items today; we've already used up a lot of time. MS. BIRD-POLLAN: We'll try to be efficient, Senator Parliamentarian. Our Trustees report? MS. BLONDER: Hi. Just a few things to report. We have a new website that we mentioned last time. This is the way the new website looks. And if you're interested, you can see old meetings, upcoming meetings, agenda items, et cetera. At the Board meeting in February, we approved the naming of what was the BRB, the new research building on Virginia Avenue; we approved it as the Healthy Kentucky Research Building. And there's a building that was the 38 University Inn at Waller and Limestone, and that was approved as the Waller Health Care Inn; it's going to have nurse training, learning centers and administrative offices. And we also approved relevant to what we've done in this meeting, the BS in Sustainable Agriculture, the Masters in Forensic Toxicology and Analytic Genetics, and we approved the reorganization of the College of Health Sciences. MR. GROSSMAN: The only thing I wanted to add to that is something that is near and dear to the heart of most faculty, which is parking, this is the corner of Limestone and Winslow, where Kennedy's used to be, and behind is where the Fazoli's used to be. This is the plan for what that block is going to be: First floor retail, and then above that parking, up to 900 additional parking spots will be available when this building is complete. It will hook into the older garage which is just south of that. So that was approved and groundbreaking should be this month. It should be ready fall of 2020. 39 MS. BIRD-POLLAN: Questions for our Trustees? MR. CRAMER: Do you know if that construction is going to be -- MS. BROTHERS: Sorry, name please. MR. CRAMER: Sorry. Cramer, Engineering. Do you know if that construction is going to affect the existing parking while it's happening? MR. GROSSMAN: I don't think it will, but I'm not sure; they'd probably face riots if it did. I should mention that the Blue part, which says See Blue U, that's like a media billboard or something, so they'll be able to project things up there like the basketball games. MS. DEBSKI: Liz Debski, A and S. So Roger had earlier mentioned that there will be a Trustees' election. I'm wondering which of you is, and are you running again? MS. BLONDER: Yes, I am. But feel free to run, everyone should feel free to run. 40 MR. GROSSMAN: I should mention, a few years ago there was a policy that if you are -- if you have a spouse or other close family member employed by the university, you can't serve on the Board of Trustees. That no longer applies. There was an opinion issued by the attorney general a few years ago, so that no longer applies and as long as the spouse or other close family member is already employed by the university when you join the Board, it's not a problem. There is still a restriction that once you're on the Board, you can't have a post family member start employment at the university. But if you are married to someone who is another faculty member, you're free to run, without getting a divorce. MS. BIRD-POLLAN: So our first report is from our Academic Programs Committee. MR. CRAMER: I think I have six items for you, so we'll -- MS. BIRD-POLLAN: So settle in. MR. CRAMER: The first item is a recommendation that the University Senate 41 approve the establishment of a new graduate certificate in Sport, Fitness and Recreation Management in the Department of Kinesiology and Health Promotion within the College of Education. The proposed certificate will provide individuals with foundational concepts within sport and fitness. Students will learn how to analyze current trends, issues, and procedures to formulate new problem solving approaches within the sport of fitness and recreation. This certificate will allow students the opportunity to demonstrate research based implementation of leadership principles in workplace settings. It's designed for current professionals in athletic administrative positions to increase their understanding of leadership skills and principles. Athletics is a multi-billion dollar industry. According to the U.S. Bureau of Labor, sports related jobs will have a double digit increase in market availability by 2022. The online program will begin with 5 to 10 students and grow to approximately 15 to 20 students. 42 MS. BIRD-POLLAN: Do we have a representative from the -- MR. CRAMER: Yeah. MS. BIRD-POLLAN: Excellent. Okay. So are there questions of fact about this proposal before we debate it? Any questions of fact for our department representative or for Aaron? So then we have a motion from the SAPC that the University Senate approve the establishment of a new graduate certificate in Sport, Fitness and Recreation Management, which will be in the Department of Kinesiology within the College of Education. Is there a debate on that motion? Any debate? Okay. So then I'll open voting. Any remaining votes? Motion passes. MR. CRAMER: All right. The next item is a recommendation that the University Senate approve the significant change to the MS Social and Philosophical Studies in the Department of Education and Policy Studies and Evaluation within the College of Education. It's proposed to change the name of the program to Educational Policy Studies and 43 to establish three formal concentrations. The previous name is viewed as outdated, potentially contributing to the declining enrollment and no longer consistent with (inaudible) in this area. Additionally, the establishment of formal concentrations will (inaudible) as the students are navigating through the program. MS. BIRD-POLLAN: Do we have a representative from this proposal here? Yes. Excellent. So any questions of fact about this proposal for either our representative or for Aaron? So then we have a motion from the committee that the Senate approve this significant change to the MS in Social and Philosophical Studies in the Department of Educational Policy Studies within the College of Education. Any commentary, any debate? Any comments? Then we'll open it for voting. Any remaining votes? Okay, motion passes. MR. CRAMER: The next item is a recommendation that the University Senate 44 approve the significant change to the BA and BS programs in Information and Communication Technology in the School of Information Science within the College of Communication and Information. The proposed change to the BA and BS programs is the addition of a new track custom which will allow students to select track courses to develop their own specialization. This is feasible with the growth of the program and enough existing courses to allow students to customize their programs of study in consultation with their faculty advisors. Other changes in the proposal include adding an additional required course with the corresponding reduction of track hours by three, and replacing required courses and adding new courses to two of the existing tracks. MS. BIRD-POLLAN: And we have a representative here as well? Great. Excellent. So any questions of fact for our representative or our committee chair? Okay. 45 We've got a motion from the committee that the Senate approve this significant change to the BA and BS in Information and Communication Technology in the School of Information Science in the College of Communication and Information. Is there any debate on that motion? Any comment? Any debate? Okay, then we'll open for voting. Any additional votes? Motion passes. MR. CRAMER: The next item is a new degree program. This is a recommendation that the University Senate approve for submission to the Board of Trustees the establishment of a new BA degree, Interdisciplinary Disability Studies in the Department of Early Childhood Special Education Rehabilitation Counseling within the College of Education. The proposed program takes a holistic view of the individual's disability in the context of their environment, focusing on entitlement of people disabilities to live full live as independently as possible. The program involving many different disciplinary perspectives addresses knowledge 46 and understanding of various disabilities and unique needs of the individual within context of culture, community, sociopolitical environment, families advocacy, coping, adjustment and acceptance of disability and knowledge of how disability affects individuals across the life span. Students will gain evidence-based knowledge and skills and then apply them in real life at agencies during practical work. This program is designed for students who want to become employed in a variety of jobs serving individuals with disabilities and/or want to go onto graduate studies in programs such as rehabilitation counseling. Initial enrollment of around 10 students growing toward (inaudible) is anticipated. MS. BIRD-POLLAN: We have some representatives from the department here and the proposer; any questions of fact about this proposed degree program? So then we have a motion from the committee to approve for submission to the Board of Trustees the establishment of this 47 new BA in Interdisciplinary Disabilities in the Department of Early Childhood Special Ed and Rehabilitation Counseling within the College of Education. Is there debate on that motion? Any comments? Okay, then we'll open for voting. Any last votes? Motion passes. MR. CRAMER: The next item is a new degree program. This is a recommendation that the University Senate approve for submission to the Board of Trustees the establishment of a new BS/BA degree, General Business, in the Gatton College of Business and Economics. The proposed degree and online completed degree in General Business is broader than existing undergraduate degrees in the college. The college views the new major as complimenting its existing undergraduate (inaudible) in a similar way with the general one where specific graduate degree programs in the college compliment each other. The program will focus on students who have started their degrees at UK but did not finish. The program requirements are identical to other college programs, requiring 48 completion of 60 hours with an appropriate GPA, and completion of required premajor requirements. Anticipated enrollment is expected to begin at 10 and potentially rise to above 150 students. MS. BIRD-POLLAN: And we have some people from Business here in the back. Are there any questions of fact about this proposal? Yeah. MR. BROWN: Roger Brown, College of Ag. I just wanted to clarify, this is described here as online completer degree and it could be confused because I think technically we would say this is a completer degree that is composed of online courses. Because we don't have anything that's technically called online completer degree; is that a fair clarification? MR. CRAMER: Yes. MR. BROWN: Thanks. MS. BIRD-POLLAN: Any other factual questions about this proposal? Okay. So then we have a motion from the committee that Senate approve for submission 49 to the Board of Trustees the establishment of the BS/BA in General Business in the Gatton College of Business and Economics. Is there any debate on that motion? Any comments? Okay. Then we'll open it for voting. Any last votes? Any remaining votes? Motion passes. MR. CRAMER: This is a recommendation that the University Senate approve for submission to the Board of Trustees the establishment of a new BA degree in Public Policy in the Martin School of Public Policy and Administration within the Graduate School. The proposed undergraduate program will focus on how public policy and decisions are made, how public policy can affect various members of society, and how leadership is exercised in the public and nonprofit sectors. Thirty years ago there were a few undergraduate programs in this area but there has been strong growth nationally and such offerings, 50 percent of programs now offering such degrees is a strong demand at peer institutions. The program focuses on analytical and 50 quantitative pools for understanding and measuring the effects of existing and proposed public policies. The program will prepare some students for graduate study and others for careers in law, education, public and nonprofit organization, and federal and state and local government. Enrollment of 30 new students per year is anticipated. The SAPC considered the potential negative impacts on the Department of Political science which are indicated within the proposal. While it remains possible that the proposed program may negatively effect the enrollment numbers in Political Science undergraduate programs, it is clear that there's not a curricular overlap between the existing degree programs and the proposed program. The proposal was evaluated based on SAPC's charge. We consider programs based on academic excellence, need, and impact, desirability and priority of the new academic 51 program in relation to other programs, and its recommendation to approve the` Council; the question whether or not a student would have a right of appeal with regard to this potential dismissal, and it was conveyed to us that they already do have that, it's (inaudible), but we've basically, then, incorporated that language with regard to the right of appeal into this Senate Rule, which you can see on the document that's been sent to you. And we then cleared up some language as well because it said the people who -- it basically made reference to earning a C or 2.0 but it didn't say or higher, and so we revised the language accordingly. So after all of that revision with regard to the proposal and again those revisions are indicated in the pdf that was sent to you. I think they're all in -- in my document, they're highlighted in red. The Senate Council approved it. (Inaudible) MS. BIRD-POLLAN: So we also have a representative of the program here. Are there questions of fact about this series of changes, the changes to the Senate Rule, but 52 dealing specifically with the BSN in the College of Nursing? Any questions of fact? Yeah. MS. DEBSKI: Liz Debski, A and S. Has any other college had this type of exception to this rule? MR. FARRELL: No one in the Senate Council knew of it; that's why they raised the issue. It was a real concern about allowing for this exception. We didn't do a review, I don't think, but nobody within the Senate Council made mention of another instance where it took place. MS. BIRD-POLLAN: Any other factual questions about this proposal? Okay. So then we have -- I'm sorry. MR. BROWN: Alan Brown, Arts and Sciences. I just want to make sure I understand. So if they get a D or an E, right, twice, and that includes a retake option, it's as if it's the second time around, they have the ability to but are not compelled to dismiss the student from the program; is that what we're 53 saying? MS. WELSH: Yes, so if they have grades of D or less, then on that second failure, they go before the Progression Committee for the BSN program and they can write an appeal. So the Progression Committee and the dean can look at the student's appeal and make a decision to let them stay in and try another time. But we're not forced to dismiss the student. That's pretty standard for the state and the nation, two failures in a nursing program and you're relooked at again by the Progression Committee. MR. BROWN: With no ability to reapply to the program? MS. WELSH: No, that's correct. MS. BIRD-POLLAN: The language says the student shall be dismissed subject to appeal. Subject to appeal is the new language, although that -- apparently that was already true in practice, but now it's also true in the rule, that the student shall be dismissed subject to appeal from the undergraduate nursing program when these things have 54 occurred, including two failures. Other factual questions? Yeah. MR. LEHMKUHLER: Jeff Lehmkuhler, Animal Science. So for clarification it's different than the option, so -- correct? MR. FARRELL: I don't understand the question. MR. LEHMKUHLER: I thought you said that they didn't have to be dismissed. MR. FARRELL: The way it's written here it says shall, so that means that they shall be or must be dismissed. But it says -- MS. BIRD-POLLAN: Subject to appeal. So I think in practice, each student who comes up against this dismissal is brought before the appeals committee. MS. WELSH: And they're notified of the process, even on admission into the program. MS. BIRD-POLLAN: Any other factual questions here? All right. So we've got a motion from the committee that the Senate approve the proposal requesting a change to this portion of the Senate Rules, so the motion is now on 55 the floor. Is there debate about this motion? Any debate about the rule change? Okay. So then we'll open this for voting. Any final votes? Last votes on this? Okay. Motion passes. One more. MR. FARRELL: So this is the proposed change to Senate Rule (inaudible) with -- regarding allowing for undergraduate certificates for nondegree seeking students admitted to the University of Kentucky. Back in the fall we revised the rules, our committee and you in the Senate and Senate Council as well, revised our rules with regard to nondegree seeking students. We are now in the position of considering whether nondegree seeking students can also earn our certificates. Last year at the Senate Council, at the suggestion of Bob Grossman, Faculty Trustee, requested that my committee, the SAASC, look into the possibility of offering certificates to nondegree seeking students. We began to examine that possibility in the fall but then set it aside until we 56 reviewed this whole issue about nondegree seeking students. In December, the proposal was submitted by Shannon Means, the director of policy and data analysis, of the UK Budget Office, and a member of the concept implementation team. The proposal is a continuation of those proposals from the concept implementation team of our path forward initiatives by the UK administration. Upon receiving the proposal, I suggested to the Senate Council Chair that the Undergraduate Council review the proposal and (inaudible) with the issue of the nondegree seeking students' changes, again seeking more input from a variety of different constituencies across the university. The responses from the Undergraduate Council were forwarded to my committee and they are included in the report. But essentially the Undergraduate Council supported the proposal but suggested that the faculty of record or the certificate director be able to determine whether nondegree seeking 57 students can enroll and to control how many spots will go to nondegree students if they are able to enroll. So then we considered the proposal in committee. One of the things I took a look into was the notion of certificates. In general, certificates are kind of a micro-credential and becoming very poplar across the country. Certificates for degree seeking students provide them with an opportunity to increase the value of the bachelor's degree, while a certificate for nondegree students is a micro-credential that will appear on a transcript and can be used by lifelong learners or nontraditional students to enhance their economic opportunities in the job market, among other educational advantages. So making certificates available to nondegree seeking students does align with the objectives and goals of UK's longstanding land grant mission. Several benchmark institutions do offer certificates, program by program, for nondegree seeking students. So the committee considered the 58 recommendation and then voted to approve the proposal, including changes that were incorporated into the proposal with regard to the control of the enrollment by the programs. When it went before the Senate Council there was much wordsmithing, again, took place over two meetings, and after some back and forth, the proposal, itself, was adopted. Would it be possible to bring it up so they can actually see it? MS. BIRD-POLLAN: Yeah. MR. FARRELL: So as you can see, the initial rule that's been I think since the '90s, I'm not sure -- UNIDENTIFIED: 2011. MR. FARRELL: -- 2011, basically only provides for certificates being available for degree seeking students. So the way we decided to, as a policy matter, approach this, is to still keep that language in place but remove the word only, so that it's available to students who are enrolled in undergraduate degree programs, but then to add on that language at the end of the first paragraph, which would allow for program 59 by program, choices being made to allow for nondegree seeking students to take these certificates. So as noted there, it says: The faculty of record of an undergraduate certificate program may establish policies to extend enrollment to nondegree seeking students and that (inaudible) of establishing policies to extend enrollment would include their choice as to, I guess, priority registration and a variety of other things. But it's really up to each individual certificate program to make that choice. Let's just note that there are certificate programs in place now. They would be (inaudible) through a message from the Senate Council Chair to go back and make a decision as to whether or not they decide to open up their enrollment to nondegree seeking students. And then all new proposals that come forward after the passing of this change would then be required to consider whether or not they were going to allow for nondegree seeking students to enroll in their certificate 60 programs. The concern that I had, and members of the committee had, about the allowing for these programs to make their own choices is that some of these certificate programs are very specific to majors, of course, so that they would not want somebody who doesn't have the prerequisites to take the certificate program. And so by styling the change in this manner, as noted in the Senate Council meetings by our Senate Council Chair, the default is that degree seeking students have the opportunity to obviously earn certificates but the nondegree seeking students would be doing it on a case by case or program by program basis. MS. BIRD-POLLAN: So that's the proposal to change the language in the way you see indicated on the screen. Are there factual questions about this proposed language? Yeah. MS. UDVARDY: Monica Udvardy, Anthropology. Is this for online programs, only 61 online courses? Any -- so any nondegree seeking student could come into a class and (inaudible) undergraduate certificate? MS. BIRD-POLLAN: So this is just about the certificate. So we already passed a rule in the fall, right, that opened -- that clarified how nondegree students would be admitted to courses at the university. So the courses question is controlled by our admissions policy, which is another section of the Senate Rules, and I forget the number, but the one we discussed and voted on in the fall. So this is -- that left open the question of whether nondegree students could enroll in undergraduate certificate programs, and the way our language had been written since 2011 was to say basically that they could not. So the proposal is to change for all undergraduate certificates, to permit the certificate program to make a decision at the certificate program level of whether or not nondegree students can enroll. So the courses is really a separate 62 question, right? This is about the certificate program, whether nondegree students can enroll in the certificate program. I don't know; maybe there are courses that are only available to people enrolled in certificate programs? MR. FARRELL: There are. MS. BIRD-POLLAN: And so, then, you know, the course wouldn't be open either unless the student were enrolled in the certificate program. Does that answer your question? MS. UDVARDY: I still don't know whether this would allow the students to come into -- nondegree seeking students to come into a class, a face-to-face course. MS. BIRD-POLLAN: Well, the course question is not answered here. That's answered on our admissions policy. MS. UDVARDY: Can you remind me what the answer to that is? MR. GROSSMAN: It's not restricted to online only. MS. BIRD-POLLAN: The answer is it's 63 not restricted to online only, but the way we've written the rule -- MR. FARRELL: If I remember right, we did have concerns about the qualifications of the students and whether or not they -- how long they could -- how many credit hours they could take as nondegree seeking students. MS. BIRD-POLLAN: When was that; was it in December? MR. FARRELL: Yeah, it was in December. And our committee reviewed it and basically made -- and I think -- MS. BIRD-POLLAN: And here is -- well, these are the types of nondegree students who can enroll in courses, and there's the other nondegree students, part C there, they wish to take undergraduate coursework without pursuing a formal degree. They're asked to self-certify they've obtained a high school diploma, GED, or meet Kentucky Counsel on Postsecondary Education college readiness indicators. Can you go down just a little more? I think that was it, right? MR. FARRELL: There it is. 64 MS. BIRD-POLLAN: Oh, okay. So nondegree students, they have to meet the course prerequisites or obtain the consent of the instructors. Nondegree students who complete nine credit hours or more with less than a 2.0 GPA are not allowed to continue enrollment. Those are the restrictions we put in, in December, on course enrollments. And, again, none of this -- I will say, I think the sense is that it's motivated by questions around online enrollments, but none of this distinguishes between online courses and face-to-face courses for either the course enrollments or the certificate programs. The programs, themselves, make the decision at the certificate level but these are the rules governing enrolling in courses for nondegree students. Other factual questions? Yeah. MR. ENGLISH: Tony English, College of Health Science. It seems like in the current thing that we're looking at, I'm a little confused because it talks about people enrolling as a 65 post-baccalaureate student, which means they already have a bachelor's degree, and a nondegree seeking student doesn't necessarily have to have a bachelor's degree, so is there a way that we can clean that up? Because the way this is written, this is only -- the only people that can do this, it looks like to me, are post-bacc students, not nondegree seeking students. MS. BIRD-POLLAN: No, the new sentence, the underlying sentence, extends enrollment beyond post-baccalaureate students to what are called nondegree seeking students, which is a term that refers to the work that Herman's committee did and the Senate did in October, I'm sorry, in December. So now we have a category, nondegree seeking students is a category beyond post-baccalaureate. In fact, that's why we have crossed off nondegree; that's the language that used to be there. It used to say post-baccalaureate and nondegree. Now it just says post-baccalaureate up there, and the nondegree seeking students' language at the bottom encompasses all 66 nondegree seeking students, some of whom are post-bacc, but others of whom are not. And some might not have bachelor's degrees; that's true. Yeah. MS. DEBSKI: Liz Debski, A and S. It's strange, though, because for post-baccs, you say that they have to meet Graduate School requirements, whereas you don't say anything about the qualifications that nondegree seeking undergraduates have to meet. MS. BIRD-POLLAN: Well, that's in the language we approved -- MS. DEBSKI: Why isn't there something here that says that? MR. FARRELL: There's reference to that. MS. DEBSKI: How does it reference that? MS. BIRD-POLLAN: To be a nondegree seeking student, you have to meet the qualifications of nondegree seeking students, which is in the other -- MS. DEBSKI: Why can't you just have a minimum that the students have to meet the 67 minimum undergraduate school requirements or something like that? MS. BIRD-POLLAN: Well, that's not the rule that was approved in December regarding the admission for nondegree seeking students. MS. DEBSKI: So I think the fear would be that -- MS. BIRD-POLLAN: So hold on, before we debate this, I'd like to just clarify if there are other factual questions about this. Bob, did you have a question? MR. GROSSMAN: I had two points that I would like to make. MS. BIRD-POLLAN: Factual questions? MR. GROSSMAN: First of all -- factual points. First of all, where it says here: May establish policies, those policies would not only include the number of students but also any qualifications they would need to enroll in the certificate program. So that is entirely within the purview of the faculty of record to make decisions about whether they want to cast a very wide net or keep a very narrow net, or not let any nondegree seeking students in at all. 68 I was also going to say on the other stuff, the courses, courses can have prerequisites and prerequisites will be enforced for nondegree seeking students as well as for degree seeking students, if that's what the -- I think it's up to the department to ask that prerequisites be enforced. I'm not sure about that. But that is another way to make sure that if a student has finished high school and wants to take a 500 level course that, you know, they need to have the prerequisites for that 500 level course. If they don't, you can choose not to let them take the course or you can do it with instructor's permission and let them take the course if you think it's okay. MS. BIRD-POLLAN: Yeah. MS. DEBSKI: Liz Debski, A and S. So how many undergraduate certificates have faculty of record only from one department? MR. FARRELL: None because they have to be interdisciplinary. That's in the undergraduate certificate rule. If you scroll down, it explains that. 69 MS. BIRD-POLLAN: Her question was the faculty of record, do they come from one department. The answer is no. But this requires faculty of record to be consulted. MS. DEBSKI: That leads to a concern of mine, which I'll wait. MS. BIRD-POLLAN: Okay. Other factual comments or questions? Yeah. MS. UDVARDY: Has anyone looked at what our benchmark universities are doing? MR. FARRELL: Yeah, I looked at the ones that were presented to me, and basically only a few are actually doing this right now. Not many, but I don't have my file with me, but at least, I think, about four or five have already started to allow for this. MS. BIRD-POLLAN: Any other factual questions? MR. FARRELL: But let me just note that they are program by program. So that was one thing I saw, that it wasn't all undergraduate certificate programs allowing for nondegree seeking students; it all depended on the program's choice. MS. BIRD-POLLAN: Yeah. 70 MR. JONES: Davy Jones, Toxicology. Bouncing off a question earlier, if you can scroll back up, I get, conceptionally, post-baccalaureate is a kind of student who is not seeking a degree. Is our definition of nondegree seeking, that's back over someplace else, one that excludes post-bacc from being included? MS. BIRD-POLLAN: I think it includes it. MR. JONES: Here, the post-bacc, it's available until the underlining. Well, no, maybe the program can soften that and by some other policy make it not available to post-bacc. MS. BIRD-POLLAN: Can you pull up the other language? So we don't explicitly call it post-bacc, although one category of nondegree student is number four there, an applicant who possesses a bachelor's degree. MR. JONES: Enrollment as a post-bacc is a status, that is not number four. MS. BIRD-POLLAN: That's right. Actually, can you go down just a little more, Sheila? We don't refer to post-bacc as 71 nondegree students here, not explicitly. MR. JONES: So they would not be captured by our new language that -- MR. FARRELL: There is a reference to post-baccalaureate students under, I think the Graduate School rule. MS. BIRD-POLLAN: Right, right, the graduate student category, not on undergraduates. MR. JONES: It's not the intention to today to capture post-bacc students by the new sentence being added. MS. BIRD-POLLAN: I think that's right. MR. FARRELL: Yeah. MS. BIRD-POLLAN: Other factual questions? MS. JOHNSON: Julia Johnson, College of Arts and Sciences. So are we -- so it seems like we've moved past questions of fact. MS. BIRD-POLLAN: No, we haven't. Still questions of fact. Any other questions of fact? MR. GIANCARLO: Matthew Giancarlo, 72 Arts and Sciences. In the third paragraph it says undergraduate certificate must be a minimum of 12 credits and then it lists other requirements. Are there any similar requirements defining a graduate certificate? MS. BIRD-POLLAN: Yes. We're not talking about that right now. I promise you we have lots of issues around other graduate certificates which we're going to diligently address in the next couple of months, but there is one of them. We think this is relatively unclear. We've discovered from certain programs that it's a little unclear. The rules committee has issued an interpretation or is going to, I forget where we are now, but -- MR. GIANCARLO: Well, this is a question for clarification. In my role on the Senate Academic Programs Committee, we went round and round last year about whether a graduate certificate can go as low as 12 credits. Then the answer was there was no restriction on graduate number of credits for a graduate certificate. 73 MS. BIRD-POLLAN: I thought our rule said nine. MR. GIANCARLO: We've actually made our certificate more rigorous than our graduate certificate. MS. BIRD-POLLAN: I think the Senate rules say nine for graduate certificates and those predate these, right, so this is a more recent set of rules, as I understand it. Any other factual questions here? So we have a motion from the committee to approve the language here, so it sounds like there's some debate, so comments? Debate questions? Observations? MS. DEBSKI: Liz Debski, A and S. So one of my concerns would be basically -- so you don't have to unanimously by the faculty of record vote, accept students, right, and so when you're talking about as per that last sentence under where it says, establish policy to extend enrollment, right, it doesn't have to be a unanimous kind of decision by the faculty of record. And so since, in fact, the certificates typically are interdisciplinary and have courses from other 74 departments, I'm kind of afraid that the faculty of record, as a whole, might accept students that another department would not want but has to deal with as part of that certificate. MR. FARRELL: I don't think that's the way the certificate works. MR. CRAMER: We discussed this at Senate Council, right; we said this would be a change and that because of this potential for loading other units, courses with students by doing this, that this would have to be something that would go through the approval process, including letters showing that it's okay for the student (inaudible). MR. FARRELL: And it would go through the entire approval process, including coming back to Senate Council. So your concern is fair. And one of the things I -- in the initial language, I talked about certificate director or directors if there are two, from each of the disciplines, if there is two or more, as well as the variety of different faculties of record. And so the language here we feel 75 encompasses all of that. And I think, in practice, you will find that if one program decides that it wants nondegree seeking students and the other program does not, you're going to have a conversation that's going to be problematic and it probably will lean towards them not allowing it to happen. And certainly when it goes through the Undergraduate Council comes before your committee as well as the Senate Council, this discussion about debate between the two different disciplines would be well known to everybody. So I think the proposal, itself, I think the way certificates work, is these two disciplines already negotiated with each other. I'm in the middle of trying to create one with the School of Art and Visual Studies for screenplay writing and film production and that sort of thing. And so the conversation about creating that certificate is in negotiation back and forth because I can't accept more students into my program and they can't, and so that conversation when the certificates are put together or they're 76 revised over time happens between the disciplines without them ignoring each other or trying to jam something through. So the language right now that says the faculty of record of an undergraduate certificate means the entire group, including both disciplines or the discipline. MS. DEBSKI: But the disciplines aren't usually represented (inaudible). MR. FARRELL: They are by faculty of record. MS. DEBSKI: You already have the graduate certificate in place and now you're going to establish policies. MS. BIRD-POLLAN: Well, no, so this would be a change to the undergraduate certificate; it's an admission change. MS. DEBSKI: But it's not a course change; it's not a content change. MS. BIRD-POLLAN: No, but it's an admissions change which will go through the programs committee and through the change process for programs. So any undergraduate certificate that currently exists that wants to make this change to admissions will have to 77 seek Senate approval for its change. MR. FARRELL: And all the way back to faculty. MS. BIRD-POLLAN: We have additional comments. Questions? Julia? MS. JOHNSON: Julia Johnson, College of Arts and Sciences. I think -- I guess I'm still stuck on the distinction between post-baccalaureate and nondegree because I think we've established that there is not a difference, right, except that a post -- I mean, earlier in the part that is marked out, it said post-baccalaureate, nondegree. So now it says the faculty of record of an undergraduate certificate program may establish policy to extend enrollment to nondegree seeking students. It's unclear to me whether -- I mean, I know that we're sort of like beating a dead horse, but it's unclear to me whether that also applies to post-baccalaureate students. MS. BIRD-POLLAN: Post-baccalaureates are not nondegree students under our earlier rules. 78 MS. JOHNSON: Okay. Then I think that last sentence needs to be clarified to -- because what you're saying, then, is that the faculty of record of an undergraduate certificate program cannot extend enrollment to post-baccalaureate. MS. BIRD-POLLAN: No, they can. Because they have a status already at the university. MS. JOHNSON: Well, then, I think it should say may also, or something. It's like it's very vague. Like it doesn't -- I don't understand that. If I were reading that, I wouldn't necessarily understand it. MR. FARRELL: So under the current rule, students who are enrolled in undergraduate degree programs and post-baccalaureate students are allowed, right now, to (inaudible). All we're doing now is affecting the issue of nondegree seeking students. And the nondegree seeking students are defined as a visiting student as well as high school student and as well as students that have achieved an undergraduate degree, and so those are included here -- 79 MS. BIRD-POLLAN: And some students who have an undergraduate degree won't be post-baccalaureate students. Davy, did you have a comment on this, specifically? MR. JONES: Keep talking, you're solving it right now. MS. BIRD-POLLAN: I like it when Davy tells me I'm solving something. But I don't have anything else to say right now. Bob? MR. GROSSMAN: I think some of this confusion can be solved editorially, just by putting a reference to the section of where nondegree students are defined, just put a see Senate rule, whatever, whatever, and that should solve the problem. If someone's unsure about what a nondegree seeking student is, they can go to the other part of the Senate rule. MR. BROWN: Alan Brown, Arts and Sciences. I mean, I agree. I think what she's saying, you know, having something that says -- because it says extend, so that's kind of a -- serving the semantic purpose of also, to extend enrollment (inaudible) as well as the 80 aforementioned groups or something.... MS. BIRD-POLLAN: Well, but the point is that, in fact, under the current rules, programs can limit their own admissions standards; we do that all the time, right, in certificate programs, we even saw today, there are limitations regarding admission. That's always true. But what we're changing is this only, to the possibility to extend, right? It used to be the case that you could not extend admission to nondegree students. MR. BROWN: Yes. My point is that -- I think -- I don't know if I'm understand correctly what she's saying, but I think what she's trying to say maybe is that this is another -- this is like you just said, it's extending to a different group that's not necessarily mentioned previously in the paragraph. Correct? MS. BIRD-POLLAN: Yeah. MS. JOHNSON: I feel like it needs an also. MS. BIRD-POLLAN: So as long as we're clear on the rule, one of the things we asked the Senate Rules Committee to do is to do some 81 of this clarification. As long as there's general agreement that the intention of the rule is clear, I think we can ask our rules committee to do some editorializing. Yeah, Mark. MR. SWANSON: Mark Swanson, Public Health. I think the clarity of this first paragraph would be much improved by just adding the word additionally to that sentence, the beginning of that last sentence, to make it clear as to (inaudible). MS. BIRD-POLLAN: I think that's something that we can do at the level of the rules committee rather than changing the rule here, as long as people generally accept that that's clear, what we intend. Yeah, Monica. Ms. UDVARDY: Monica Udvardy, Arts and Sciences. Has there been any discussion about what happens to the quality of the undergraduate certificate when you could potentially have only nondegree seeking students in that versus students who have been admitted into a degree seeking program? 82 MS. BIRD-POLLAN: Well, I think there has been conversation about it. I think there are disagreements among faculty about that. Part of the goal here was not to say that all undergraduate certificates would be automatically open by adding the rule, but instead allowing a program by program conversation about it to let them make their own decisions about opening a program. MR. FARRELL: I'll just note that back in December and all throughout fall, I was vetting this issue about nondegree seeking students and the potential impact upon the university. I wrote a nine page memo that was attached to our review last December when we passed it, so I read numerous issues about my concerns initially as being the only Senate representative on the concept implementation team. My committee allayed my fears with regard to nondegree seeking students coming in. It's a choice that we made to limit the nondegree seeking students to nine credit hours. If they drop below 2.0, they cannot continue on. It seemed to satisfy everybody 83 at the Senate Council, at the Senate Committee level and also here at the Senate level. I'm with you on the concerns about it. Maybe it's something we'll revisit over a couple of years if this really becomes problematic. My concern is with regard to degree seeking and nondegree seeking students, our philosophy has been we cater to the degree seeking students first and then nondegree seeking students if there is room available, we make it available for them. Because of this initiative which is based partly on land grant mission prerogatives but also on the interest of money and raising money is problematic; I think it's problematic. So I think as we go forward with this if there are concerns that pop up department by department, it should come back to the Senate and we should review all of this, if necessary. But we did vet this thoroughly with regard to nondegree seeking students taking courses and now with regards to certificate as 84 well. MS. BIRD-POLLAN: Any other comment? Debates? Yeah. MR. GIANCARLO: Matthew Giancarlo, Arts and Sciences. We're in the comment phase, right? MS. BIRD-POLLAN: Yeah, we're in the comment phase, yes. This is the debate phase, yes. MR. GIANCARLO: I'll make a comment that I'm very uncomfortable with the way this is worded, not just because of the ambiguity about post-baccalaureate versus nondegree seeking students, but the fact that, for example, this particular version of the rule makes an explicit requirement for post-bacc with minimum Graduate School requirements, but it makes no reference, whatsoever, to what kind of requirements there may be for undergraduate certificate enrollment for undergraduate programs in general. Second, some of the issues that you just raised, they bloom large in my hesitance to even begin to think about the possibility programs and departments (inaudible) 85 certificates which might have a very, very powerful incentive to go out and get as many students as they could. And when that's in place, it's going to be very difficult to close that barn door and then say that we're going to have certain requirements put in or a certain standard put in after the fact. So thirdly, I'm not sure that we have still a quorum here, and that's something we want, that something that seems to be of this magnitude and importance for the long term educational mission at the university where we're, essentially, opening up the doors to a whole new category of enrollees. I'm reluctant to take that far step. MS. BIRD-POLLAN: So was that a request for a quorum? MR. GIANCARLO: Yeah, I would (inaudible). MS. BIRD-POLLAN: So how do we do that? MS. BROTHERS: You can call roll or I can create a slide real quick. MR. BROWN: Can I ask Matthew a question? 86 MS. BIRD-POLLAN: Doug, can he ask Matthew a question in the middle of -- MR. MICHAEL: Let's wait until this is done. UNIDENTIFIED: What is the definition of a quorum? MS. BIRD-POLLAN: It's 46, right? Do we know what it is? Davy, do you happen to know what a quorum is for us? MR. JONES: It's 40-something. MS. BROTHERS: 45. MS. BIRD-POLLAN: Everybody who votes will give us a count; we'll know how many. So just vote A or B. We just need a number. Please vote if you are here and you have a clicker. 48, okay, we have a quorum. Okay, Alan. MR. BROWN: Alan Brown, Arts and Sciences. My question for Matthew, and not just for Matthew, that language, is the core concern, Matthew, the may establish policies without setting some sort of base, meaning we don't know what kind of policy they'll establish, right? Is that the concern? 87 MR. GIANCARLO: Yes. MR. BROWN: So may establish policies but they could be very low, they wouldn't -- MS. BIRD-POLLAN: Well, then they will have to bring it to the Senate. I mean, they will have to bring it to the Senate regardless. We have to come to the Senate and be voted on by the Senate. MR. BROWN: So there is some sort of safety net there. MR. GIANCARLO: I'm not seeing it. MS. BIRD-POLLAN: It's in the program change, right, so it's not here, but it's everywhere else we talk about program changes. This is a program change. It's an admission standard and admission standards come through the Senate. Abigail? MS. FIREY: Abigail Firey, Arts and Sciences. If this is an admissions change, where is the description of who admits particular students to these interdisciplinary certificates? I mean, this says that policies are established, but who actually is evaluating the application -- 88 MS. BIRD-POLLAN: Well, that's already true in all the programs at the program level. So when you see a program proposal come through the Senate for an undergraduate certificate, it gives you information about the admission standards and who the admissions decided body is. So if the faculty of record make admission decisions and they decide how they're going to admit people, that's already true and that would continue to be true under these rules as well. It just gives the program faculty the ability to allow nondegree students to enroll, which is not currently true. So that's the change. Bob. MR. GROSSMAN: I would like to speak in favor of this change for a few reasons. First of all, it is constant with our land grant mission to extend education to as many people as possible. Second, a lot of the -- the research shows that when people sign up for online courses, at least 70 percent of them, I think is the number, sign up for -- at universities within a hundred miles. So we're talking 89 about people who are already in our (inaudible) and possibly if they get a certificate, they may later come and get a complete degree. So I think this is also a way of recruiting students as well as to extending education to people who would not otherwise obtain additional education. MS. BIRD-POLLAN: Any further debate on the motion? Yeah. MS. UDVARDY: Monica Udvardy, Arts and Sciences. Was there any discussion about having some way to distinguish between someone who gets an undergraduate certificate who is a nondegree seeking student versus one who is a degree seeking student? MS. BIRD-POLLAN: What do you mean by distinguish? MS. UDVARDY: On their record, for example, the certificate that they receive. MS. BIRD-POLLAN: Well, certificates are reported on a transcript and so they would not be indicated to have a (inaudible). It would indicate the certificate also. 90 MS. FIREY: Abigail Firey, Arts and Sciences. I have reason to believe that we have lost quorum; can we have another quorum count, please? MS. BIRD-POLLAN: Can you reset this quickly? Now you can vote. Please vote if you have a clicker. MS. BROTHERS: 42. MS. BIRD-POLLAN: Everybody voted? We're adjourned, I guess. Is that right? Is that how it works, parliamentary? MR. MICHAEL: Move to adjourn. MS. BIRD-POLLAN: Okay, I'll take a motion to adjourn. MR. BRAY: Zach Bray. MS. BIRD-POLLAN: Second? Herman Farrell. Okay, this will be the first thing on our agenda in April. * * * * * * * * * * THEREUPON, the meeting was adjourned at 5:15 p.m. * * * * * * * * * * 91 STATE OF KENTUCKY ) COUNTY OF FAYETTE ) I, Lisa Grant Crump, the undersigned Notary Public in and for the State of Kentucky at Large, certify that the foregoing transcript was prepared by me; that I was present during the aforementioned matter; that the transcript was prepared under my direction and supervision and to the best of my ability. My commission expires: April 6, 2019. IN TESTIMONY WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my hand and seal of office on this the 28th day of May, 2019. /s/ Lisa Grant Crump LISA GRANT CRUMP NOTARY PUBLIC, STATE-AT-LARGE NOTARY ID: 620810 92